The Ice Blog

by Ice

Update: Agree to Disagree

And we continue the discussion:

Darren sez:

That is really funny … the line about Roses and Candy. I liked that.

And I certainly try to live by the “Golden Rule.” Which by the way, is also mentioned in the Koran. Maybe Osama bin Laden should have read it prior to 1994.

While I am not a Bush “yes man,” lets at least be truthful here. Going back as far as 1994, there is evidence that Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden were in contact and working together, especially in the area of weapons development … evidence the “anti-Bush” media frenzy and anti-war democrats simply choose to ignore.

The neighbor murdering his family is the crux of the question! The philosophical point. If I wait and call the police it will be to late … the family will be dead. The police can point the finger and punish the murderer, but they cannot stop it from happening. If I shoot the man attempting to murder his family, perhaps I can save their lives. Which to me is a good thing … something I would hope others would try to do for me. Of course, … many would probably stand up and call me a murderer for shooting the poor misunderstood murderer … and saving the family’s lives.

Just as many, today, choose stick there heads in the sand and say its not our problem! So what if North Korea, Iran, or Iraq gain nuclear armaments … So what if Saddam Hussein murders hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Kurds and thousands of his own people … We should have never went into WW II … Hitler business was Hitler’s business … not ours … We have no business intervening in their problems! What’s six million Jews … more or less? Hell, at least Stalin only murdered millions of his own citizens … no problem for us there is there? I know … lets just build a big steel and concrete wall around the U.S. and let the rest of the world kill themselves off … not our problem!

Rightly or wrongly, Congress surrendered its power to declare war in Iraq when it overwhelmingly voted to pass the resolution granting President Bush the power to use force in Iraq. Has the U.S. Supreme Court declared that resolution unconstitutional? If they do, then I guess I will agree that you have an argument … until then, that resolution stands and is, all verbiage aside, a declaration of war by proxy.

If you consider it right to sit by and simply let Iran, Iraq, or North Korea gain nuclear weapons, to allow terrorist groups like Al Qaeda to indiscriminately blow up innocent men, women, and children around the globe simply because it is not in your backyard, or to let the Taliban or Saddam Hussein spread their stone age totalitarian regimes to other regions; then my friend … you are right … I don’t know right from wrong!

And my response:

And if the woman in your scenario has the right to bear arms she would be able to protect herself… right? But look at the ways in which the U.S. inserts itself into the problems of others. Do you think it proper that the U.S. interferes with other nations as it has been doing (CIA intrigue, “installing” friendly governments, etc.)?

Consider the Middle East: Are you honestly going to stand on the position that Israel cannot deal with the problems in the ME and that the U.S. MUST stick a nose in? Be sensible. Israel has nukes and did bomb Saddams power plant to stop him from gaining such weapons. The problems of the ME should be left to the ME. Israel has proven time again that it can take care of itself. [Meanwhile, McDonalds can move their dollar menu into the area. (You see, if we are not a part of the conflict there wouldn’t be any reason for those nations to reject doing business with Americans. And we could purchase stock in McDonalds and profit. Savvy?)]

The call to go to war is still out there. They are not giving up on military conflict with Iran. And it matters not who the next president is (other than Ron Paul) – it will happen… if the economy doesn’t collapse first.

World War II is a different duck altogether. We were attacked by Japanese and the CONGRESS DECLARED WAR. Totally legitimate. But even now I am not convinced that we should remain in either Afghanistan or Iraq. They have suffered for their actions (or inaction: like installing better government than they had) and it is time for us to go. It is not the military’s place to rebuild those nations. Americans are a generous lot. I’m sure that donations would be forthcoming if a case could be made for such.

If other nations want to allow Terrorists to blow up their citizens … what right do you or I have to interfere? But those terrorists are targeting Americans and do it based on U.S. Foreign Policy. Don’t poke the Skunk and he won’t Squirt ya. And you believe that the U.S. Foreign Policy is okay and that poking the Skunk is fine too?

And our backyard is still not receiving the security it requires. The borders are still open and being crossed on a daily basis. What is to stop the religious terrorists from coming into the backyard? Oh, I forgot, our border patrol is busy guarding the borders of other nations … right?

I’m sure that we will have much greater security when every American has a VeriChip in their hand and we can know the movements of every American. American will be safe under U.N. rule and taxation and economically safe with the NAU. While we are at it, why not just throw out the bill of rights? We only have ONE of them left anyway!

The entire discussion should be based on the Constitution and what authority it designates to the government and what authority it retains to the States and the People. Any philosophical argument is moot. At present the very foundation of this nation has been completely undermined and electing any of the other candidates will only lead to the End of America as envisioned by its founders. The rest are all leading America into a one world government and rejecting national sovereignty.

A video that makes the point: Don’t Let Tyranny Take Hold

Here is the video:

One of the issues that we have not really addressed is the economic issue. The economy of those nations that seek to “spread their stone age totalitarian regimes to other regions” will not stand long if there are nations with stronger economies. “Empires” have always come to an end because they could not sustain themselves financially. When such empires as the one Saddam envisioned come up against a nation with a stronger economy they meet their end… that is if the people of those nations have not risen up and forced a change in their government because of its economic failings.

Presently American ingenuity is leading the U.S. to being free from gasoline via the fuel cell. Not too long ago Ford had tested a fuel cell auto that ran 206 mph. Think of the effect this will have on the Middle East… and the U.S. reserves of oil. Many American homes are using alternative energy methods and that number will increase as these methods are refined and become more accessible.

But any argument regarding Foreign Policy must be made in regards the Constitution and the Power Base of the Nation – The People. Personally, I believe that every nation should be put on notice that if they take actions that cause us to declare war upon them – we will do the job and then LEAVE THEM TO PICK UP THE PIECES. The U.S. military is not a construction company. They are in the business of Destruction. Many disagree with this position for various reasons. Some would claim that a victory allows the victor the spoils. “Sack and Burn” would be the term.

The problems faced here at home are, and should be, taking precedence over the problems of other nations. It is time America took care of itself and stopped worrying about what people like Chavez are doing within their own nations.

One thing I can most definitely state: The Revolution has begun and there is no stopping it.

But I fear it will begin to get bloody due directly to the governments refusal to remain within the limits placed upon it by the Constitution (limits which it is whittling away one by one).

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January 23, 2008 - Posted by | Constitution, Economy, End of America, Fraud, Freedom & Liberty, Law, Politics, Ron Paul

8 Comments »

  1. […] Update: Agree to Disagree If I shoot the man attempting to murder his family, perhaps I can save their lives. Which to me is a good thing … something I would hope others would try to do for me. Of course, … many would probably stand up and call me a murderer for … […]

    Pingback by Update: Agree to Disagree | January 23, 2008 | Reply

    • I WOULD NOT DOUBT WHAT IS BEING SAID!!!
      THIS F-ING, “NEGRO” THAT EVERYONE VOTED IN HAS THEM ALL BLIND SIDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      I HAVE 1ST HAND INFO. ON HIS SO CALLED JOB PLACEMENT INFO.
      THAT WILL MAKE YOU SICK.
      IT IS TIME FOR THE PEOPLE TO TAKE OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      THE GOVERNMENT IS IN A DOWN WARD SWING WITH NO END AND WE ARE PAYING FOR IT. THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT A REAL BUDGET IS, THEY JUST SPEND.
      GET WITH IT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      I WOULD LOVE TO RUN FOR A POLITICAL PARTY, BUT I WAS “NOT” BORN WIT A GOLD SPOON IN MY MOUTH, I CAN NOT AFFORD TO.

      Comment by NIC PISTOLESI | October 26, 2009 | Reply

      • First of all, race has nothing to do with it. See earlier comments about the office of President and representatives.

        If you really want to run for office … find backing from the people. Announce your candidacy, use fliers to explain your position & clue people in to the reality of the situation, go door to door shaking hands and seek campaign contributions.

        Until you decide to actually go for it there are plenty of other things that you can do… as mentioned in other comments here.

        Comment by Ice | October 26, 2009 | Reply

  2. […] Ice wrote an interesting post today on Update: Agree to DisagreeHere’s a quick excerptSome would claim that a victory allows the victor the spoils. “Sack and Burn” would be the term. The problems faced here at home are, and should, taking precedence over the problems of other nations. It is time America took care of … […]

    Pingback by Claim Blog » Blog Archive » Update: Agree to Disagree | January 23, 2008 | Reply

  3. […] Ice wrote an interesting post today on Update: Agree to DisagreeHere’s a quick excerptRightly or wrongly, Congress surrendered its power to declare war in Iraq when it overwhelmingly voted to pass the resolution granting President Bush the power to use force in Iraq. Has the US Supreme Court declared that resolution … […]

    Pingback by Iran » Update: Agree to Disagree | January 23, 2008 | Reply

  4. […] Ice wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptConsider the Middle East: Are you honestly going to stand on the position that Israel cannot deal with the problems in the ME and that the US MUST stick a nose in? Be sensible. Israel has nukes and did bomb Saddams power plant to stop … […]

    Pingback by Update: Agree to Disagree · Middle East | January 23, 2008 | Reply

  5. I am against cap and trade and one world government…I read about this prediction many years ago and hoped it was a hoax…cannot believe it is at my doorstep…I would never go along with this…

    Comment by betty ann macaluso | October 28, 2009 | Reply

    • Well, it seems that whether you or anyone else would go along with this doesn’t matter to the “representatives” in the House. They have been acting like Dukes and Duchesses with an attitude that they know better than the “common folk”. It is time to “clean House”, as they say, and make sweeping changes in HOW we are represented.

      It seems to me that a representative should represent the will of the constituents and not the will of those that line his/her pockets with riches.

      Comment by Ice | October 28, 2009 | Reply


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